OK... let's chat a bit, from one (semi-)atheist to another.
Atheism is a life philosophy. As such, it can be lived under responsibly, or... less so. In my view, the highest and best expression of atheism is to "see with eyes unclouded". That means being able to pull aside all the human layers of assumption that we all gather around us unavoidably, as part of living with a human brain, and observing what **is**. I believe that you believe that you are doing this already. But - there's a Part 2.
As in, *why* does it matter to be able to "see with eyes unclouded"? For what purpose? I think that atheism is pretty clear about this as well - in order that one may analyze the world more completely and comprehensively, in order to solve specific problems of existence. So here's my question to you. What problem are you solving, with your observation that - if you allow me to paraphrase - "Nature sucks and we shouldn't care about it, we should shrug our shoulders and just destroy it as fast as we can, that's the better way to live"? You suggest that doing this will improve our personal lives somehow. Uh... really? Could you, uh. Defend that in a court of law? Or with a straight face, in person, to just about any other human being?
Again, as one atheist to another: I don't think you've thought about this as deeply or as *logically* as you think you have. Let me propose a counter-argument.
I, as a human being, enjoy eating food. This is because without food, I will starve to death over the course of about a month to six weeks, with indescribable suffering in the process, and if the phenomenon of foodlessness is wide-spread, will likely be either the perpetrator or the victim of cannibalism during that time. Or maybe both. For reasons I hope I don't have to go into detail on, I'd strongly prefer not to experience this.
I have worked logically through all the other aspects of my life and have determined that none of them - absolutely none of them - are more important, for the enjoyable continuation of my own life, than continuous access to nutritive food.
Where does my food come from? Currently, it comes roughly 40% from a grocery store shelf and 50% from a local farmer's market. The remaining 10% comes from a restaurant or fast food setting and I can go without it (and could lose a few pounds in doing so, so no big deal).
The 40% from the grocery store relies not only on just-in-time fossil-fuel-intensive shipments from trucks and ships and planes, but is heavily based on industrial agriculture. I encourage you to read up on its practices, particularly the uses and effects of glyphosate. Needless to say industrial agriculture does not respect Nature in the slightest - the glyphosate spraying which has increased dramatically in recent years has led to immense insect die-offs, noticeable even by the common person who lives in nearby suburbs. Less mosquitos and mayflies - it's great, right? Progress, right??! But the bees which pollinate the local fruit trees have died off in the same numbers... and this isn't even touching the reverberations of taking out the entire bottom of the food chain. First birds, then frogs, then small mammals, then large mammals... sure hope all that industrial agriculture is indefinitely sustainable! Our brash disrespect of the natural world and its ways is all but determined to leave us few alternatives, should it ever fail us...
The 50% which comes from the farmer's market is a bit different. All of it is grown at a distance from me which could be bridged in a day by a horse and wagon, should the oil ever be inconveniently unavailable. The organic methods the farmers use are focused around stewardship of their land - low or no usage of fossil fuels, and the same living ground can be used year after year to grow a huge variety of products. Many farmers also keep livestock, or live next to farmers that do, and use that as their fertilizer. On top of that, it contains vastly more nutrients than the grocery store food, and tastes SO much better...! But the most important aspect is that, almost no matter what happens in our world, the farms will still be able to produce food for the forseeable future. Also, their existence is not aggressively killing off the world around them. I consider them an example of respecting Nature - not sentimentalizing it, not trying to keep it trapped under amber, but being conscious of it and doing their best to work with, rather than against, it. In short, working wisely with Reality and its constraints. And it is not merely pleasurable, but my **absolute duty**, to support them within our current financial system as much as I possibly can, to ensure that they remain and hopefully expand their operations.
The only thing keeping me from going 100% at the farmer's market is cost - they are still considered a "luxury" option by our culture - and also, a learning curve. From 2015 - 2020 I ate almost every single meal at a restaurant. This year, I decided to act upon my own logical observations, and change the way I personally live. Since January my family and I have been moving slowly, but inexorably, towards a way of life which might actually protect us from the starvation I would prefer we not experience. I have learned how to cook, and how to stock a pantry, and am planning to learn how to preserve food too.(I have also planted my first garden this year, which is going well, but harvest is not for another few months, and there is quite a learning curve there as well.) We live with family, and are strict with our finances (lots of Goodwill and library books!) in order to afford this lifestyle. I am actively looking about for a community that shares my values, and which can help protect us against those that do not. This isn't always pleasurable... but it is deeply, deeply meaningful.
I am doing all this, I believe, because I DO respect Nature. I respect its ways red in tooth and claw. I respect that I am not separate, that I am not special. That God will not save me from myself. That I very well might both kill and be killed in my day. That if I do not judiciously use the full faculties of my human intelligence which I have been granted by my DNA, that my children have little chance of surviving Nature's tests. And that no matter my emotional opinion on that, it is simply The Way That It Is. There is no time to whine - no time to lament - no time for sentiment. There is only a great Filter, looming closer to us every single day.
And therefore it seems to me, that in my pursuit of the extremely logical goal of me and my family's long-term survival, that the most important thing I can possibly do is to keep ahold of my own emotional control. We must move, as quickly as is reasonably possible, towards a way of life that we can sustain in the face of what may come. We must work with others - that means getting along with others. We must gain skills that our abstracted modern upbringings did not teach us (my father just told me that my lettuce is dying because I didn't heap up the earth around it to properly retain the water I am pouring on it. The more you know!). We must make smart choices while we still have the resources to make them. And we must do it step by step, with a heart which is at peace, and a mind which is not at war with itself, or we will make no progress at all, until it is too late.
So therefore, I'll repeat to you: Please, meditate on all this, and try to locate the source of your own emotion. I sense in your words that you are stuck. You are aware, on some level, that the life you live is a steaming pile of [retracted for Kimberly's blog], but you cannot see any way to escape it. Your mind cannot conceive of one. So you are trying as hard as you can to accept it. But your own heart - dare I say your soul - cannot bear it. You cannot bear that you live in a time and a society where everything beautiful and meaningful and reliable is being taken away from you. So you cling to the idea that "comfort" and "loving oneself" can somehow make up for their tremendous loss. But it can't - it can't. It can only numb you to the pain for a while... and not even do that very well.
I'll tell you one last thing. I am the only atheist I have ever met who has been able to face the inevitability of death calmly. At first this was a sop to my pride; then it was rather interesting; finally, it became deeply concerning to me. I read up on the statistics and realized that unless instructed otherwise at gunpoint, the vast majority of human beings have always practiced some form of religion or spirituality. I realized, in short, that spirituality is Nature. My atheism was the oddity - the thing that was just useful enough to express in a small percentage of the population (a similar example is reproduction by rape), but which can never be a majority, because outside of that narrow expression, it does not increase human flourishing. And in the midst of the incredible mess that was 2020, I finally understood why on a personal level. When suffering is happening to you, it is not enough to say "Hmm. I see that I am suffering. How interesting!" Your very soul will be dismantled, because this phrase cannot engage or manage your emotions, and they will destroy you from the inside. Most people find true emotional relief only in meaning, and for humans the well of meaning springs from spiritual practice. Only there, will most people find the calm that they need to carry on, and to face the challenges of their age with dignity.
This next part will not make sense to you, so take it as a separate comment, but in the isolation and darkness of late 2020, I remembered that I had done a lot of spiritual work before... in my previous life. I have been constantly using the techniques I learned then, unconsciously, to keep myself calm and productive in the face of all the challenges I have faced thus far. Atheism has been my way of side-stepping toxic spirituality, which is certainly the majority of what is practiced nowadays! This realization, though **deeply** weird, made every part of my life fall perfectly into place. I am now picking back up the regular spiritual practices I once did - and yes, it is exactly like I am re-reading, refreshing my memory, though I never once before came across the texts I am referencing in this life. I do not call on gods or spirits - I stick to my close observations of Nature, and refer to the elements in their place - so technically, I am as much an atheist as I ever was. But I understand now that there is more to life than what our five senses can prove. I will probably have many more decades to live on Earth, and I must figure out how to most correctly use them, and to use correctly the boons my soul has gathered up for itself as well. Out of that duty, I must tell you - and in time, all the other atheists I am acquainted with as well - that unthinking atheism is a mistake. It will not bring you happiness. It will not save what you love. And it will not protect you from Nature.
Whether you take my point or not, I hope that you will at least take time to think deeply about your own relationship to Nature, and use logic to get to the bottom of what truly **matters** to you. And that you will consider shopping at your local farmer's market once in a while, finances depending. All upside, no downside... meditate on it!
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
timeasmymeasure
Re: Nature's audience
Date: 2021-05-14 07:26 pm (UTC)Atheism is a life philosophy. As such, it can be lived under responsibly, or... less so. In my view, the highest and best expression of atheism is to "see with eyes unclouded". That means being able to pull aside all the human layers of assumption that we all gather around us unavoidably, as part of living with a human brain, and observing what **is**. I believe that you believe that you are doing this already. But - there's a Part 2.
As in, *why* does it matter to be able to "see with eyes unclouded"? For what purpose? I think that atheism is pretty clear about this as well - in order that one may analyze the world more completely and comprehensively, in order to solve specific problems of existence. So here's my question to you. What problem are you solving, with your observation that - if you allow me to paraphrase - "Nature sucks and we shouldn't care about it, we should shrug our shoulders and just destroy it as fast as we can, that's the better way to live"? You suggest that doing this will improve our personal lives somehow. Uh... really? Could you, uh. Defend that in a court of law? Or with a straight face, in person, to just about any other human being?
Again, as one atheist to another: I don't think you've thought about this as deeply or as *logically* as you think you have. Let me propose a counter-argument.
I, as a human being, enjoy eating food. This is because without food, I will starve to death over the course of about a month to six weeks, with indescribable suffering in the process, and if the phenomenon of foodlessness is wide-spread, will likely be either the perpetrator or the victim of cannibalism during that time. Or maybe both. For reasons I hope I don't have to go into detail on, I'd strongly prefer not to experience this.
I have worked logically through all the other aspects of my life and have determined that none of them - absolutely none of them - are more important, for the enjoyable continuation of my own life, than continuous access to nutritive food.
Where does my food come from? Currently, it comes roughly 40% from a grocery store shelf and 50% from a local farmer's market. The remaining 10% comes from a restaurant or fast food setting and I can go without it (and could lose a few pounds in doing so, so no big deal).
The 40% from the grocery store relies not only on just-in-time fossil-fuel-intensive shipments from trucks and ships and planes, but is heavily based on industrial agriculture. I encourage you to read up on its practices, particularly the uses and effects of glyphosate. Needless to say industrial agriculture does not respect Nature in the slightest - the glyphosate spraying which has increased dramatically in recent years has led to immense insect die-offs, noticeable even by the common person who lives in nearby suburbs. Less mosquitos and mayflies - it's great, right? Progress, right??! But the bees which pollinate the local fruit trees have died off in the same numbers... and this isn't even touching the reverberations of taking out the entire bottom of the food chain. First birds, then frogs, then small mammals, then large mammals... sure hope all that industrial agriculture is indefinitely sustainable! Our brash disrespect of the natural world and its ways is all but determined to leave us few alternatives, should it ever fail us...
The 50% which comes from the farmer's market is a bit different. All of it is grown at a distance from me which could be bridged in a day by a horse and wagon, should the oil ever be inconveniently unavailable. The organic methods the farmers use are focused around stewardship of their land - low or no usage of fossil fuels, and the same living ground can be used year after year to grow a huge variety of products. Many farmers also keep livestock, or live next to farmers that do, and use that as their fertilizer. On top of that, it contains vastly more nutrients than the grocery store food, and tastes SO much better...! But the most important aspect is that, almost no matter what happens in our world, the farms will still be able to produce food for the forseeable future. Also, their existence is not aggressively killing off the world around them. I consider them an example of respecting Nature - not sentimentalizing it, not trying to keep it trapped under amber, but being conscious of it and doing their best to work with, rather than against, it. In short, working wisely with Reality and its constraints. And it is not merely pleasurable, but my **absolute duty**, to support them within our current financial system as much as I possibly can, to ensure that they remain and hopefully expand their operations.
The only thing keeping me from going 100% at the farmer's market is cost - they are still considered a "luxury" option by our culture - and also, a learning curve. From 2015 - 2020 I ate almost every single meal at a restaurant. This year, I decided to act upon my own logical observations, and change the way I personally live. Since January my family and I have been moving slowly, but inexorably, towards a way of life which might actually protect us from the starvation I would prefer we not experience. I have learned how to cook, and how to stock a pantry, and am planning to learn how to preserve food too.(I have also planted my first garden this year, which is going well, but harvest is not for another few months, and there is quite a learning curve there as well.) We live with family, and are strict with our finances (lots of Goodwill and library books!) in order to afford this lifestyle. I am actively looking about for a community that shares my values, and which can help protect us against those that do not. This isn't always pleasurable... but it is deeply, deeply meaningful.
I am doing all this, I believe, because I DO respect Nature. I respect its ways red in tooth and claw. I respect that I am not separate, that I am not special. That God will not save me from myself. That I very well might both kill and be killed in my day. That if I do not judiciously use the full faculties of my human intelligence which I have been granted by my DNA, that my children have little chance of surviving Nature's tests. And that no matter my emotional opinion on that, it is simply The Way That It Is. There is no time to whine - no time to lament - no time for sentiment. There is only a great Filter, looming closer to us every single day.
And therefore it seems to me, that in my pursuit of the extremely logical goal of me and my family's long-term survival, that the most important thing I can possibly do is to keep ahold of my own emotional control. We must move, as quickly as is reasonably possible, towards a way of life that we can sustain in the face of what may come. We must work with others - that means getting along with others. We must gain skills that our abstracted modern upbringings did not teach us (my father just told me that my lettuce is dying because I didn't heap up the earth around it to properly retain the water I am pouring on it. The more you know!). We must make smart choices while we still have the resources to make them. And we must do it step by step, with a heart which is at peace, and a mind which is not at war with itself, or we will make no progress at all, until it is too late.
So therefore, I'll repeat to you: Please, meditate on all this, and try to locate the source of your own emotion. I sense in your words that you are stuck. You are aware, on some level, that the life you live is a steaming pile of [retracted for Kimberly's blog], but you cannot see any way to escape it. Your mind cannot conceive of one. So you are trying as hard as you can to accept it. But your own heart - dare I say your soul - cannot bear it. You cannot bear that you live in a time and a society where everything beautiful and meaningful and reliable is being taken away from you. So you cling to the idea that "comfort" and "loving oneself" can somehow make up for their tremendous loss. But it can't - it can't. It can only numb you to the pain for a while... and not even do that very well.
I'll tell you one last thing. I am the only atheist I have ever met who has been able to face the inevitability of death calmly. At first this was a sop to my pride; then it was rather interesting; finally, it became deeply concerning to me. I read up on the statistics and realized that unless instructed otherwise at gunpoint, the vast majority of human beings have always practiced some form of religion or spirituality. I realized, in short, that spirituality is Nature. My atheism was the oddity - the thing that was just useful enough to express in a small percentage of the population (a similar example is reproduction by rape), but which can never be a majority, because outside of that narrow expression, it does not increase human flourishing. And in the midst of the incredible mess that was 2020, I finally understood why on a personal level. When suffering is happening to you, it is not enough to say "Hmm. I see that I am suffering. How interesting!" Your very soul will be dismantled, because this phrase cannot engage or manage your emotions, and they will destroy you from the inside. Most people find true emotional relief only in meaning, and for humans the well of meaning springs from spiritual practice. Only there, will most people find the calm that they need to carry on, and to face the challenges of their age with dignity.
This next part will not make sense to you, so take it as a separate comment, but in the isolation and darkness of late 2020, I remembered that I had done a lot of spiritual work before... in my previous life. I have been constantly using the techniques I learned then, unconsciously, to keep myself calm and productive in the face of all the challenges I have faced thus far. Atheism has been my way of side-stepping toxic spirituality, which is certainly the majority of what is practiced nowadays! This realization, though **deeply** weird, made every part of my life fall perfectly into place. I am now picking back up the regular spiritual practices I once did - and yes, it is exactly like I am re-reading, refreshing my memory, though I never once before came across the texts I am referencing in this life. I do not call on gods or spirits - I stick to my close observations of Nature, and refer to the elements in their place - so technically, I am as much an atheist as I ever was. But I understand now that there is more to life than what our five senses can prove. I will probably have many more decades to live on Earth, and I must figure out how to most correctly use them, and to use correctly the boons my soul has gathered up for itself as well. Out of that duty, I must tell you - and in time, all the other atheists I am acquainted with as well - that unthinking atheism is a mistake. It will not bring you happiness. It will not save what you love. And it will not protect you from Nature.
Whether you take my point or not, I hope that you will at least take time to think deeply about your own relationship to Nature, and use logic to get to the bottom of what truly **matters** to you. And that you will consider shopping at your local farmer's market once in a while, finances depending. All upside, no downside... meditate on it!